Questions and Answers regarding New Zealand joining Lochac.
These questions were ones asked on the Lochac List, and replied to by Gawyne, Prince of Lochac, and by members of the Australian SCA Committee in 2002.
The name of the replier is listed after each answer
1/ Would our groups and members be considered equals and accorded all the rights and privileges of other Lochac citizens? i.e. would we be permitted to hold Kingdom Offices, fight or be fought for in Crown, bid for and hold Kingdom events?
Of course. Everyone in NZ will be a member of the populace of the kingdom of Lochac. To hold an office you will have to be a member of the SCA, to fight in Crown you will also have to be a member of the SCA. Yes, NZ people will be allowed to host Kingdom events. All members will be equal. Just a note, we have Kingdom events held in Perth, Adelaide and Hobart. They're all further away from Sydney/Canberra/Brisbane than you are. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
2/ Would the awards of Caid held by our members be recognised and honoured? Where in you order of precedence would our awards sit? This will take some research. First of all your society level awards (peers) will be recognised and stand as equals of course. I'd assume that your kingdom level awards will more than likely have equally weighted awards in the kingdom of the West. I say west because we will have to go through a similar process regarding our awards when going kingdom. e.g. West Kingdom service award = Kingdom Caid Service Award = Kingdom Lochac service award. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
3/ The groups within New Zealand are widely dispersed and politically separate. Would Lochac consider accepting some of our groups, but not all of them?
There's two separate parts here, In game and out of game. Out of game is SCA BOD's and membership, this is address below. As for In Game, I believe it is only feasible to take NZ as a whole and while I have not asked them I believe there majesties would only be prepared to release NZ as a whole. Logistically it could be a nightmare. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
4/ If Lochac accepted all NZ groups would it expect to deal with New Zealand as a single entity (eg a Kingdom or some such) or would each group be recognised individually?
I'm beginning to see a theme in these questions. Let me just state that the people in NZ will not merely be some sideshow tacked onto the Kingdom of Lochac. You currently have existing group structures, which will be kept intact. What the populace of those groups choose to do after that will be up to them as per normal. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
5/ How often would the King and Queen of Lochac realistically be able to visit New Zealand?
In Lochac we have a travel fund. I'll get you some more info on this later but basically each Kingdom event (Kingdom events in future) has a percentage of its attendee’s entry price donated to the travel fund. I think We have Aus$1750 to play with this year. The reeve only releases money after receipts of travel are produced. I will be asking that to be increased if NZ decides to join the kingdom. Basically, for around $200-400 plus the above I can travel to every Barony in Australia. We will be going to around 9 groups in our reign plus our home groups (3). As I stated above NZ is closer to the majority of SCA people in Lochac than many of the other baronies. Based on this alone I would expect at least 2 visits a year, similar to most other Baronies and shires in Lochac unless the P&P (K&Q) are local. e.g. Rowany gets to see us every event because we live there. I would expect a smart K&Q would spend a week in NZ and visit more than one group. (If you held a couple of events at the same time as the snowboarding season I'd visit lots.) 6/ How often could key Kingdom Events such as crown tourney, and Coronation be held in New Zealand? The bid process. Lochac has a bidding system for running Kingdom events and this would continue when we go Kingdom. NZ groups will have the same right as any Lochac group to put in a bid for an event. I will get a bid info pack to all group seneschals if people are interested at a later date. (Hint here, as of yet there are no bids for Second crown tourney or invest.) Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
7/ How would mainland Lochac deal with a New Zealander winning the Crown?
There would be much celebrating the same way as if someone in Perth, Adelaide or Hobart won. Actually same way as if anyone in Lochac won. The royalty would be seen mainly in their home group. Plus make trips to a number of groups outside their area. Also, the location of investitures and Crown tourneys will have decided by then so just because a certain person won has no relevance on the next 4 kingdom events. For example, before I won Coronet the location for my invest (Agaricus), the following Crown tourney (Rowany) and the following crown invest (Politarchopolis) had already been decided. I had no say in where any of the events I had to attend would be. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
8/ If NZ joined Lochac would the Lochac registry cover our members?
This will require more research and I will not say anything until I have some concrete information.
Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
9/ Would we be covered by the Aussie BOD, and if so would we be eligible to sit on the board?
This requires more research and time. I've been told there are some major changes the US Bod are considering that may effect non US groups. I'm not privy to this information as this is a OUT of game area and hence I have no more authority than Joe newbie member. Hope this has help some. We intend to publish a small booklet/pamphlet that will address all these concerns and any others that come up. So keep sending them in. We can't address them unless we know about them. Gawyne, Prince of Lochac
Following is a compilation of questions compiled by Edric and Catalina during their visit to the area commonly referred to as the ‘Southern Reaches’ in March of this year. The Q&A has been divided into two sections. Section I contains the replies sent by the SCAA, while Section II contains the replies from the Crown Prince & Princess, Prince & Princess, and Seneschal of Lochac. Each question has only been answered once. These questions were sent in their entirety to the Lochac Royals who, in turn, forwarded the questions in Section I to the SCAA for answers. Any information between asterisks and parentheses *(info)* was supplied by Their Majesties Guillaume and Felinah, or Condesa Catalina OroSol for purposes of clarification only. I: Answers supplied by the SCAA (The Society for Creative Anachronism Inc, South Australia).
QUESTION: Will the SCAA cover New Zealand? How does the SCAA Committee intend to interface with the SCA, Inc. Board of Directors?
The Society for Creative Anachronism Inc (South Australia) (hereafter referred to as 'SCAA') is an Australian mundane legal entity. As such, it has jurisdiction only in South Australia, and through the inter-state agreements made at Federation, the Commonwealth of Australia. Put simply, our authority extends only throughout Australia. Therefore the SCAA has no legal authority nor jurisdiction in New Zealand. While New Zealand and Australia enjoy a relatively close geographic and trade relationship, there are specific legal differences between the two nations that must be addressed. To provide a handy metaphor, we're a bit further apart in terms of international agreements than the US and Canada are.Our Board, by law, must be made up of Australian residents The SCAA was formed to give the SCA a legal status in Australia, thus allowing us to take out local insurance, represent ourselves in legal cases, have our mundane laws included in rule changes, provide tax security for our branches and comply with the laws of the Commonwealth of Australia.We liaise with the Society for Creative Anachronism Inc (Milpitas) (hereafter referred to as 'SCA Inc') through an affiliation 1 agreement that is regularly revisited. While the SCA Inc owns the original intellectual property that is the Society for Creative Anachronism, it is not a recognised legal body in the Commonwealth of Australia, hence the decision to incorporate locally. *(1 AFFILIATED BODIES: From www.sca.org.au – The Rules of the SCAA“6. Affiliated Bodies: The Association may recognise similar organisations with similar constitutions (save for those changes necessary to conform to the Laws of the state in which it is incorporated) as an affiliated group. The Association shall be affiliated with the SCA. It is subject to all of the rules and regulations as embodied in the Organisational Handbook save and except those which conflict with Australian Law or these Rules.”)*QUESTION: Will New Zealand members have input to the Rules for the SCAA?
New Zealand members will not be a part of SCAA. *(No)*
QUESTION: How does the SCAA Committee intend to deal with the mundane laws of New Zealand as they differ from Australian law?
If an SCANZ exists, such conflicts would be brought to each others' attention through our regular interaction under an affiliation agreement. As is the case with Corpora, there will be a number of areas where Lochac law may well say "except for Australia" or "except for New Zealand". New Zealand laws will not be looked at by the SCAA for our corporate policies and decisions, as they do not fall under our scope, just as Australian laws will not be looked at by the SCANZ for their policies and decisions.
If there is no NZ legal entity, it will be the responsibility of individual New Zealanders to bring such issues to the attention of the Crown, SCAA would remain a disinterested party in these issues.QUESTION: Will it be necessary for New Zealand to incorporate?
Please note that this will be a decision for the New Zealand groups to make. However, there are implications of their decisions that will affect the SCAA. There are three probable models for New Zealand if the SCA groups decide to join Lochac.<1> If New Zealand decides to join Lochac and stay with SCA Inc International Memberships, they will remain as they are. The Kingdom of Lochac will need to negotiate with SCA Inc for a portion of New Zealand membership monies to be allocated to Pegasus (the newsletter of the Kingdom of Lochac) and will need to make up the difference in funding between that portion and the cost of distributing Pegasus. Australian membership monies will not be spent on New Zealand members, just as US membership monies are not spent on Australian members. Membership lists for New Zealand members would need to be obtained from the SCA Inc registry 2 in a timely fashion before Crown Tournaments. The SCAA regularly advises the Principality of Lochac on mundane ramifications of rule and law changes, no such service for New Zealand would be provided under this current model. Please note that this is not intended as a criticism of SCA Inc. SCA Inc is not actually an International organisation, rather it is the corporate arm of the US membership, and its interests are properly there. There is a small part of their operations concerned with maintaining consistency in the 'game' across the various nations involved. However, this does not and should not translate to international legal familiarity and expertise.(2 REGISTRY: From The Known World Handbook “Registry: The SCA office in charge of keeping the membership list and the subscription records for all the corporate publications. While it records SCA names as well as legal names of members, it makes no effort to compare records with the College of Arms or to enforce the requirements for SCA names, so getting the Registry to list a name does nothing to reserve it to your use.”)*
<2> If New Zealand decides not to form a legal body, but wishes to use the SCAA registry, they will be welcome to this service. This would allow for Pegasus to be fully funded for New Zealand members by the corporate body, and provide one set of membership files. Membership fees would be calculated on a cost-recovery basis. There would still be no coverage of mundane New Zealand issues by the SCAA and the affiliation agreement to use the SCAA's registry as a resource would have to be made with an individual from the New Zealand groups, which is less than desirable. We would not be able to make an affiliation agreement with one of the New Zealand groups, as none of them exist as legal entities. All New Zealand members would be regarded as affiliate members. We would consider a shared registry to be an advantage as it would allow for a smooth provision of member services, and save New Zealand from large currency fluctuations or the high cost involved in setting up their own Registry.
<3> If New Zealand decides to form a legal body, the SCAA will affiliate with this body (hereafter referred to as SCANZ) so as to facilitate sharing of the Registry and easy discussion on pan-Lochac issues if and when they arise. Incorporation is not the only method of becoming a legal entity that NZ may choose to investigate. A person in NZ is currently working on this matter from the New Zealand side. Becoming a legal entity would give the New Zealand groups the strongest protection under the law, as well as the best representation. Under this model, all New Zealand members would be regarded as members of SCANZ. SCAA and SCA Inc would extend their mutual recognition of membership to include SCANZ. This is probably the strongest model for New Zealand to follow.Will the Lochac registry cover members in New Zealand?Please see the possible models above. The decision will depend on the wishes of the New Zealand groups.What are the implications of incorporation?
Please note our above comments that there are other possible avenues for becoming a legal body in NZ other than incorporation, which avenues the New Zealand groups may choose to follow. If the New Zealand groups choose to become a legal body, the following advantages will be available to them
<1> # SCANZ will be able to revoke and deny their own memberships when a member is banished. In Australia, we are bound by the British tradition of natural justice in our common law. Should we revoke and deny a membership without adequate investigation and allowing a member full natural justice, then we risk prosecution in our mundane courts. Handing such matters to the SCA Inc. automatically fails the test of natural justice, as the member is not represented and cannot be present at any investigation. An SCANZ would be responsible for its own membership and therefore able to make sure there are no infringements of this precept.
<2> # SCANZ would provide a defined, protectable legal identity that could be insured against legal action. While NZ laws are far saner than those of most nations with regards to socialised insurance, it is still possible to pursue libel and defamation claims through the courts, amongst others.
<3> # SCANZ would provide a legal body for the purposes of taxation identity, allowing the group to benefit from government programs aimed at non-profit organisations, and allowing a wider range of tax concessions to be claimed.
<4> # SCANZ would, like SCAA, be a mundane legal body bringing to the attention of the Kingdom of Lochac all implications of mundane and in-game legal changes and rulings. Without such a body, such representation would be haphazard at best, as was the case in Australia before SCAA and as remains the case for Europe and the SCA Inc.
Will the SCAA pay the costs for such incorporation and all related expenses thereafter?
The SCAA is willing to affiliate with any proposed SCANZ, however, it is in no way a 'parent' group nor sponsoring body. SCAA would not pay any costs towards SCANZ. (As a point of interest, SCAA paid its own way at the time of its incorporation.) Running costs for SCANZ would be paid for by SCANZ members, as running costs for SCAA are paid for entirely by SCAA members.
If not, what is the initial true cost of incorporation for New Zealand and the approximate associated future costs?
Currently being investigated.
QUESTION: Will New Zealand be covered by the SCAA’s insurance?
No. Once again the SCAA is not a legal body in New Zealand. Further questions that assume otherwise have been omitted as they will attract the same response. Please note that these questions have been sent to our New Zealand advisor and a response will be forthcoming from New Zealand.Will the SCAA pay for this insurance and its related expenses thereafter?
As above. *(No)*
If not, what is the initial true cost of procuring insurance for New Zealand and the approximate associated future costs?
Currently being investigated.
QUESTION: Will waivers be required?
Corpora has been altered to allow for waivers only in such countries as accept them as legal documents.
QUESTION: With two separate mundane legal entities (two sets on mundane laws and with monies going to two separate places), can Lochac reasonably have only one Seneschal and Exchequer?
Our response is that we would recommend that the Seneschal and Exchequer have deputies in both countries to handle mundane reporting obligations and to liaise with the relevant committees. II: Answers supplied by Lochac’s Crown Prince & Princess, Alfar & Elspeth, Prince & Princess, Gawyne & Yve, and Seneschal, Lady Artemisia de Quieto d'Arzenta
QUESTION: Will the SCAA consider accepting some but not all areas and/or SCA branches in New Zealand?
No. We believe this will be destructive to the game in New Zealand, will include additional cost to those in New Zealand and is not an option that Lochac is offering.
QUESTION: Would Lochac expect to deal with New Zealand as a single entity (such as a principality) or would each branch be recognized individually?
In game, each branch is recognised individually.
QUESTION: What does Lochac think about the possibility of creating a New Zealand principality in the future?
If that is what the populace of New Zealand want for the future then there would not be a problem as long as it was not destructive to the game. This really is too far in the future for the current governing bodies to comment on.What kind of support can be given to help us towards that goal?See below. This is to far in the future too give an acceptable answer to.What is the minimum time frame in which you would consider making New Zealand a principality?Minimum 5 years. This will require time and work.What are Lochac's thoughts on making New Zealand a Crown Principality?This again is too far into the future to comment on.Does Lochac have any requirements (membership numbers, time as part of Lochac, etc) that New Zealand would need to fulfill before Lochac would consider this (Crown Principality)?As per corpora with the addition of the move not being destructive to the game.QUESTION: Will New Zealand members have input into the laws of the Kingdom of Lochac?Yes. If New Zealand choose to join the Kingdom then a group will be formed to adjust the Kingdom laws to take into account the needs of the new populace.If so, will this apply to all of the laws, or only the laws that have not yet been finalized?Yes, all laws that effect the new populace. *(In game)*Will there be a working group set up to discuss this?
Yes. I would foresee the group being composed of the King and Queen, the Seneschal, a specialist appropriate to the subject matter and one representative from each group within NZ (probably the Seneschal). The representative for each group would poll the group and bring their issues to the meeting.
QUESTION: What will the true membership costs be for New Zealanders?
*(No reply given)*Will members in New Zealand be considered "International Members"?This will depend on which option NZ takes.If so, what restrictions, if any, would apply to them as International Members?See above models.QUESTION: Will Lochac guarantee a minimum amount of Royal Visits to New Zealand?We do not do this for any of Lochac's other groups. While we cannot guarantee Royal visits to every group in Lochac, our Royalty do try to ensure that the maximum amount of groups are visited during a reign. As all groups within Lochac are considered equal, New Zealand groups would not be disadvantaged.If so, how often? If not, please explain.
As stated, if the groups of New Zealand are to be treated as equal members of the populace then this cannot be done. But please let me stress again that Lochac royalty is used to travelling distances to visit groups and that a travel fund is in place. In our reign the travel fund allowed us to visit Adelaide, Hobart, Brisbane and Albury plus all the groups within NSW. It is the current Prince and Princesses and the Crown Prince and Princesses intent that if New Zealand joins Lochac during their reigns that they will endeavor to increase the travel fund to allow for a trip to New Zealand.
QUESTION: Will New Zealand be eligible to host Kingdom events and, if so, what is the likelihood of getting one?
Yes. As a side note, over the past years it has fallen on the Seneschal to run Principality events as no bids were in. As long as a acceptable bid is in then it will win in these cases. Remember that Kingdom events can pull up to 400 people. This is no small task but we believe there will be many people from Australia willing to assist people in New Zealand if they require it.(In regards to the roster system: We are currently looking at moving to a roster system for Kingdom Events. This would hopefully ensure a more even spread of Kingdom Events across Lochac. Each group would still need to submit a successful bid. Should New Zealand join Lochac, the New Zealand groups would be added into the roster system. The roster is currently in the process of being developed. Groups will be given the option to be put down for events at certain times of the year (to avoid any clashes with existing group events or adverse climates). New Zealand groups would be given the same considerations.)How often could New Zealand expect to host a Kingdom event?Each bid will be treated on it's own merits. If your bid is the best then it will be yours. Traveling distance will not be an issue. The time since you last ran an event will be. If your group recently ran a Kingdom event and is now in competition with a group that hasn't run one in a while then weight will be added to their bid and vice versa. When Lochac moves to the roster system then NZ groups will be guaranteed of running an equal number of events to any Australian group.What are the criteria used in the bid acceptance process?A competent stewarding team (prior experience in running events), a suitable venue, detailed budget including travel fund allowances, list of contingencies in case of emergencies (e.g. if it is an outdoor event a "wet weather" venue would need to be allowed for in the event plan). If a bid is unacceptable for any reason, the submitting group will receive a letter from the Council of the Purse (K&Q, Lochac Seneschal and Exchequer) detailing why the bid was unacceptable and suggestions on how the bid could be altered to make it acceptable. Timetables and types of events are generally flexible as they will often need to be discussed with the incoming/outgoing Royalty closer to the event date.If an area closer to the majority of Lochac's populace also bids, what is the likelihood of New Zealand getting the event?There are many factors that make this question hard to answer. The bid proposal, time since group last held event, door price etc. If there are people prepare to run the event and put in a bid then there is every chance. When we move to the roster system this will be irrelevant.Will the small size of the branches in New Zealand be a factor in consideration of their bid?As long as they are capable of running an event of this size then no, the size of the group doesn't matter. Several of our smaller shires such as Torlyon and Borderescross have held successful principality events in recent years.Will the distance and associated costs of getting to New Zealand have any bearing in the bid acceptance process?No. As the bids are to be decided upon before the affected K&Q are decided then travel cost are not an issue. While in recent history many of the Kingdom events have been run on the East coast this has been because of a lack of bids, not because of travel costs. The roster system will guarantee NZ gets an equal number of events to Australian groups.QUESTION: Will the New Zealand groups and members be considered equals and accorded all the rights and privileges of other Lochac citizens including, but not limited to, eligibility to hold Kingdom Offices?Of course! A Barony in New Zealand is equal to a Barony in Australia, as with shires, colleges and any other group. In Lochac (in game) there is no New Zealand and Australia. All matters pertaining to these entities are out of game and handled by the BOD.If so, will they be eligible to hold ALL Kingdom offices? If not, please explain which offices they would not be allowed to hold and why.All Kingdom offices will be able to be held by NZ members. In some cases, such as Chronicler, it may be necessary that the Kingdom officer have a deputy in the other country to assist with things like printing and posting. (eg. a New Zealand member could be Chronicler and would have a deputy in Australia who would arrange for printing and posting of Pegasus within Australia).· Will the fact that they are in New Zealand be allowed as a factor in the choosing of such officers?No. Nearly all work can be done via e-mail, telephone and mail.Does distance, time and travel cost factor in the decision process of appointing officers within the continent of Australia itself?No. Below is a list of our current officers and their location:
Seneschal: Wollongong, NSW Exchequer: Sydney, NSW Crux Herald: Adelaide, SA Knight Marshal: Canberra, ACT A&S officer: Sydney, NSW Chronicaller: Brisbane, QLD Chirurgeon: Brisbane, QLD Lists: Perth, WA. Constable: Perth, WA. Provost of Scribes: Blue Mountains, NSW Principality Archer: Melbourne, VIC
As you can see, the current officer corps of Lochac is fairly wide spread.QUESTION: What kingdom level administration could be delegated to people in New Zealand?
If it becomes necessary, some offices may elect to have a deputy that covers the country that they aren't in. With only a few groups in NZ, the local officers should be sufficient to handle most things. If it becomes necessary for a Kingdom officer to appoint someone local to a problem to intervene then they are able to do that.QUESTION: What will happen to the New Zealand members’ Caidan awards?
The current laws of Lochac and the proposed Kingdom laws for Lochac to recognise foreign awards.ARTICLE VI – AWARDS Section 9 - Immigrant Arms: “The Kingdom of Lochac recognizes the Arms and Orders awarded by other Kingdoms of our Society. Armigers moving to Lochac will be placed on the Lochac Order of Precedence as though they had received the equivalent Lochac awards.”QUESTION: Would New Zealand be entitled to keep all of their customs, etc?
Yes where the customs do not contravene SCA laws and Kingdom laws (in which New Zealand will have a say) and mundane laws.QUESTION: Would the Travel Fund be increased to allow the additional travel that a Crown living in New Zealand would require during their reign?
No. A Crown in New Zealand has no more increased cost than one in Brisbane, Hobart, Perth, Adelaide and Stormhold. The Populace of New Zealand are equal members and will be treated as such.QUESTION: How does the travel fund work in Lochac?
A surcharge is put on Principality events (Kingdom events). This surcharge is then put into the travel fund. Currently the fund is $1750 in total for the couple. We will be putting forward a proposal to increase this if New Zealand joins Lochac. Once receipts are produce and given to the exchequer then funds are reimbursed.How would this affect New Zealand?
When a kingdom bid is put in the budget will have to include a travel fund surcharge which will be taken into account before profit/lose is calculated.
We hope that the above information helps answer many of your questions.